tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post2115431156639751024..comments2024-03-27T11:04:31.390-04:00Comments on From the Sorcerer's Skull: Toward a Taxonomy of MagicTreyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04647628467658839351noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-67868202029180468472011-09-13T18:13:20.044-04:002011-09-13T18:13:20.044-04:00@Richard - That sounds interesting--thanks for the...@Richard - That sounds interesting--thanks for the link! So "real world" magic systems (more accurately, perhaps real world "unified field theories" of magic or games based there on) just something similar to what you're talking about. Isaac Bonewits <i>Real Magic</i> (and the gaming supplement) authentic thaumaturgy suggest that some people are better at magic than others and so can do it kind of "psychically" but the less talented really have to use rituals for focus or to build up energy.<br /><br />As you point out, that sort of approach can be very attractive from a game standpoint.Treyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647628467658839351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-10775998123047846862011-09-13T17:28:56.650-04:002011-09-13T17:28:56.650-04:00d'oh: HPMoR link here.d'oh: HPMoR link <a href="http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality" rel="nofollow">here</a>.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-12422316208710864802011-09-13T17:28:11.275-04:002011-09-13T17:28:11.275-04:00Are you familiar with Harry Potter and the Methods...Are you familiar with Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality?<br /><br />First just because it's really good (honestly I find it a lot more interesting than the original HP), second because there's already been an interesting discussion of Rowling's hints about magical heritability and rituals.<br /><br />It's a common trope (at least since Ars Magica, doubtless long before) that rituals should be more powerful than impromptu or will-based magic. I'd like to mix that up: maybe rituals are the magic everyone can do (and not particularly powerful), but if you have real magical talent you can blow them away with impromptu effects?<br />(caveats: if you know what you're being subjected to/if you know what the enemy is doing and where they are/if you know what the consequences of your magical will are going to be - I'm sure there's a way to run this that doesn't just end up with powerful sorcerors being superheroes, which is kinda what happens in HPMoR and to a lesser extent HP canon)richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-44213456587181158832011-09-13T16:58:00.738-04:002011-09-13T16:58:00.738-04:00Good point; that is a tendency that seems to exist...Good point; that is a tendency that seems to exist, though the relationship to the energy/ritual dichtomy. <i>Harry Potter</i>, for instance, is more on the ritual side but has a definite inherited component both in doing magic and in strength, perhaps.Treyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647628467658839351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-19101335337404209932011-09-13T08:04:46.057-04:002011-09-13T08:04:46.057-04:00An important factor is the degree to which inheren...An important factor is the degree to which inherent talent is supposed to be required for magic.<br /><br />Energy systems are frequently wielded by the "one true hero" types. Anime is full of this trope.<br /><br />Ritual systems suggest that intellect is required, not inherent talent.<br /><br />Conversely, fortune-teller types usually claim that inherent Gypsy blood or some such thing is necessary to see the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-32692870384672133652011-09-09T14:04:55.057-04:002011-09-09T14:04:55.057-04:00Sounds like a good approach to me. :)Sounds like a good approach to me. :)Treyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647628467658839351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-51654547958024437242011-09-09T12:23:40.069-04:002011-09-09T12:23:40.069-04:00Energy is the ability, skill and raw power necessa...Energy is the ability, skill and raw power necessary to make the rituals work. Rituals focus and direct and 'program' the power of the caster, and anything that they can tap into, such as other planes, entities, or artifacts. Thus you have both your cake and a full tummy in one fell swoop.netherwerkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08361800925618339097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-38487796709911122072011-09-05T12:50:26.668-04:002011-09-05T12:50:26.668-04:00@Needles - I think comics in general want to have ...@Needles - I think comics in general want to have it both ways. They talk about rituals because--well, that's how magic is talked about--but in practice they most often analogize it with superhero powers and have it be energy. Looking at the <i>Dr. Strange</i> corpus, we see rituals (and even more talk of rituals) but we also see direct "magic power" contests. <i>Warlord</i> magic seems somewhat similar, but its just not as visual baroque as <i>Strange</i>'s.<br /><br />@Richard - Good thoughts. I agree those seem to be fairly common tropes. As I say there are always exceptions: The One Power in the WoT has a "female" half connected with by "surrender" and a "male" to be taken hold of and controlled. The effects of either are not terribly different. Also, the recent urban fantasy <i>Sandman Slim</i> seems to have ritual magic that's potency is explicitly tied to innate facility--of course, there are other indications that the magic here may be kind of a hybrid of the two.<br /><br />I like your analysis of <i>Pokemon</i>. The interaction there is actually quite complicated.Treyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647628467658839351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-46250513891182736722011-09-05T12:15:15.019-04:002011-09-05T12:15:15.019-04:00there is often some machismo associated with wheth...there is often some machismo associated with whether the magic is flashy or quiet, with adherents of both sides keen to point out that they are not the other. <br /><br />Energy magic seems to be more about the agency of the wizard, ritual magic seems more about the agency of the magic itself, or some other magic-granting entity - and gets into tricksy territory about whether you're trying to work your will in the right place at the right time and all that. <br /><br />Pokemon seems to straddle this divide in odd ways: the magic entities are out and proud, so there's differential power to be observed among them, but they're also credited with world-shaking ritual powers that don't necessarily map onto their ability to duel. Their human handlers are either vailglorious demonologists who have the tiger by the tail or nurturing friends-of-pokemon who basically let the magical entities do what they want to do, rather than trying to achive their own goals. I'll think more about this...richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8302487761596456689.post-46371075032242765522011-09-05T11:34:27.930-04:002011-09-05T11:34:27.930-04:00This going to sound weird but I always thought tha...This going to sound weird but I always thought that with Strange it was energy based but there was the odd powerful ritual as well. With AD&D's you act as channel for planar forces bit its been a bit hazy. Conservation Of Energy doesn't seem to come into play here. <br />With systems like WW's Mage things got interestingly complex. Personally with the media its always been special effects & flash. I simply added those to the rpg systems & let the role playing take the rest. There are some interesting ideas as well. You could look at a comic book like Warlord as well & see the DC take on things.Needleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11243274667834930867noreply@blogger.com